A backpackers’ hostel in Hillhead
A planning application has recently been submitted to convert “offices” (the former dance school) at the ground and basement level of 23 Marywood Square into a hostel with 24 beds.
Full details can be found here: https://publicaccess.glasgow.
The Society has in the past objected to sub-division of properties in the area and HMO licences as we feel these conflict with the Conservation Area appraisal. We also raised concerns over the running of the Queens Park Hotel. Once the Society has drafted a response I’ll post it on the blog (please see update below).
In the meantime, the planning application reference number is Ref. No: 12/01693/DC
If you wish to comment or object to the application, you might want to consider the impact on the conservation area, referring to the conservation area document, which is available online (PDF), amenities such as bins and car parking, the current city plan and its design guides for listed buildings and those in conservation areas which you can find here.
You can send a comment or objection via email to planning.representations@drs.glasgow.gov.uk or by post to Development and Regeneration Services, Development Control, 231 George St, Glasgow G1 1RX. The case officer is D Drummond. The comments and objections of neighbours will always count for more than those of a single organisation.
The deadline for neighbour comments is 30th October, so I suspect this subject will also be discussed at the Strathbungo Society AGM on Tuesday 23rd October, 7-9pm, Queens Park Church, 170 Queens Drive.
Update: If you wish to object, you can download and use this document as a starting point. It outlines the main grounds for objection and is based on the objection letter the Society has submitted: 23_Marywood_Objection_Letter
There is strength in numbers on issues like these. The Society has already been in touch with elected representatives and the community council to seek their support and has objected to the plans as an organisation but neighbour objections do carry great weight.
The community council fought long and hard to close the Queen’s Park Hotel. The real challenge was that the QPH, whilst operating as a hostel, wasn’t subject to any further regulation. The ‘backpackers’ description is not a material planning consideration and if granted the operators would not be bound by that description.
If this application is granted there would be no limitation on who the operators accept as clients. I would urge everyone to seriously consider this application. If you are not in favour of this development please don’t leave it to others to object. Please also bring it to the attention of your neighbours. Objections need to be made on the basis of planning issues so it would be useful for those with experience or expert knowledge to share their thoughts.
I would expect that the community council will submit a formal objection in due course.
@Andrew Montgomery
Yes, I have just spoken to the Case Officer and he has confirmed that the category of ‘hostel’ includes halfway house type accomodation and there is no guarantee that it would be used by backpackers.
I would just like to thank you for bringing this to our attention and researching the grounds for objection thoroughly. We will be making our objections known. (number 40 Queen Square)
To be clear and to avoid anyone missing the deadline with their objections to the Planning dept, can you please clarify deadline dates? Am I correct in assuming that only immediate neighbours have until 30 Oct to object and that everyone else only has until 19 Oct (ie. This Friday!!) and therefore before the Bungo AGM. If so I would suggest that the info above be updated to make this clear.
I would also suggest that the Evening Times and local papers be contacted as they are always extremely interested in such stories – let’s not kid ourselves this won’t be a backpackers hostel it will be a half way house (housing people with various social and substance related issues)which recent examples nearby around Queens Park have proved extremely detrimental to the local area.
I understand that Nicola Sturgeon and the relevant local councillors are aware of this proposal – have they confirmed that they will be fighting the proposal on behalf of their constituents?? I have today made Anas Sarwar, Labour MP for Glw Central aware of the situation and he has promised to look into it.
I would also urge the Strathbungo Society to find out who the councillors are that sit on the Planning Committee and urge them to refuse this application. Best check proper procedures though as my understanding is that if any councillor sitting on a Planning Committee comes out publicly and states their support / objection to an application they will be excluded from voting on said application.
There is also a serious safety issue here – with the tight street and extremely limited parking can you imagine the access difficulties faced by emergency services trying to reach the proposed hostel if there was a fire. 24 hostel residents would have no chance if there was a fire!!
IT’S IMPERATIVE THAT EVERYONE LODGES OBJECTIONS TO THIS FRIGHTENING PROPOSAL HOWEVER IN DOING SO THEY MUST MAKE THEIR COMMENTS BASED ON VALID PLANNING GROUNDS (As per pro forma objection letter link above) – saying you don’t want this use next to your house will simply be deemed as NIMBYism (not in my black yard) and hold no sway with the planners.
Finally is it worth the Society setting up a Facebook page against the proposal??
There is already a Strathbungo Society page on Facebook which will be updated with info on this issue. I’m also operating a mailing list for news for anyone who would like it. Email chair@strathbungo.co.uk with 23 Marywood in the subject line and you will be added to the list.
On the objection deadline dates, the Council’s website states that neighbour objections must be received by 30th October and the last date for comments following press notice is 19th October. However, there is no clear definition of what a neighbour objection is and, as the Society’s letter points out, it’s unclear whether the correct procedure has been followed for neighbour notification.
As ever with planning objections, the sooner people respond the better, but the best information I have is that residents can object up until October 30th.
All 3 of our city Councillors have objected to the application. None of them currently sit on the planning committee (interestingly, from a political viewpoint, none of the current planning committee members represent areas which contain a conservation area – this makes it easier for those who do to support objections on behalf of residents who are more likely to make planning objections but does mean such areas have less influence!)
I suspect a ‘neighbour’ will be anyone who has received a neighbour notification notice
with everyone else only having until 19th to object. Perhaps worth checking with the case officer.
Myself and my wife have just lodged separate objections to the applications. Suggest that each person per household submits an objection rather than just submitting one objection per household – the more the better!
Well done to whoever prepared the proforma objection letter…..excellent!
If we agree that a ‘half-way house’ is one where support and care are given to people moving from residential or institutional care to independence in the community, then if these premises were to be used as a half-way house, they would have to be registered with, and inspected by the Care Commission. Furthermore, individual residents would be supervised by the health or social services. So, paradoxically perhaps, the supposed risks which concern earlier correspondents are probably less if the premises were a half-way house than if they were a back-packers’ hostel. And yes, I have lived for many years next-door to a home/hostel for adolescent boys who had been in trouble, and I experienced no problems whatever. I know that Strathbungo is rightly trying to move away from being the B&B/hostel area of Glasgow, but I would be sorry if the sole grounds for objection were that residents did not want vulnerable people anywhere near them – vulnerable people in supervised transition from institutional care into the community.
@Chris Jay
Hi Chris
I believe wholeheartedly in rehabilitation and mixed housing but I have to admit my liberal credentials were tested when I received the notification. I’ve thought long and hard about whether to object and on what grounds.
As you say, the application makes no mention of using the property for offenders or for those with substance abuse problems. Although (as I understand it) if the change of use is granted, it could be used for this purpose. Such accomodation is usually managed by an established organisation such as Pheonix and staffed by professional, experienced people. In my experience, they generally have a zero-tolerance approach to anti-social behaviour of residents and I might be more inclined to view such plans more favourably. Whether it’s good policy to house lots of people with the same ‘problems’ together is another issue…
I appreciate my feelings may not be shared by all of my neighbours but that’s irrelevant as the the application is to allow a private owner to run a ‘for profit’ hostel. Even if we are to believe it will be used by ‘backpackers’, I think the template letter provided elsewhere on the site outlines many good reasons for objecting to the plans.
As a slight aside, I’m slightly wary of bringing the plans to the attention of the Evening Times for the sake of those people whose properties are on the market. Coverage of the problems relating the hostels on Queens Drive had a noticeable effect. I doubt sensationalist stories about the potential arrival of ne’er-do-wells will do ‘our’ cause any good and could, potenitally, harm our case.
Can I congratulate the individuals/family who distributed the leaflet ACT NOW TO PROTECT YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD!!!
It would have been useful if the leaflet had indicated what the perceived threat actually is instead of coded messages about half was houses. This is NIMBYism in it’s clearest form.
Maybe an honest approach would have been a leaflet that said act now to protect your houseprice as we don’t want anyone living who here who may have difficulties. Quite a lot of assumptions appear to been made here!! When I look about the street I see a lot of frightended nimby’s. Please look within before attempting to influence other people’s opinions.
I hope you and your family are proud!!!
Chris, no support would be given to any residents with whatever problems they may have. This is a commercial enterprise interested in renting out beds as opposed to providing care for residents. As Sophie says there are many valid reasons why a hostel in Strathbungo should not be granted planning consent. I have spoken to many residents over the last day or so all of whom are wholeheartedly against the proposal for a variety of reasons so hopefully they will all lodge objections with the Planning dept.
I have lodged my objection today. Hopefully the message is getting out to other residents.
Thanks to the person who put the note through my door to alert me to the application.
I decided to go online last night to check the progress of my planning application and not knowing where to find it, I googled ’23 Marywood Square’, bringing me to this site…
I would like to clarify a few issues.
On taking early retirement at 50, from the accountancy profession, I decided that I would like to fulfil my dream of setting up a backpacker travel hostel in Glasgow . I have been a world traveller , travelling to countries such as Peru, China, Vietnam, Nepal , Malawi, Thailand and the list goes on. I am also a very keen hillwalker and cyclist doing various charity challenges, like last year cycling from Vietnam to Cambodia for charity. My sole purpose of this venture was to make people feel welcome to Glasgow, and to fulfil my dream of setting up an ideal retreat for travellers from abroad based on all my experiences. I was brought up in a guest house in Ayr and also being a keen hillwalker I have stayed in various hostels and bunkhouses in Scotland recently. I have no desire to set up a so called half way house. Indeed, such hostels, used for permanent addresses, come under different legislation ie multiple occupancies and have there own laws. The tourist industry , where people just stay in short term accommodation is different . Maybe the word hostel has bad conotations given the recent bad experience in the local area but my sole purpose in doing this is not financial, rather a way of life and to give travellers to Glasgow a good experience in their stay and to make it as enjoyable as possible including my mums home made shortbread. The experience I have gained from travelling abroad I wanted to put to good use. This was going to be a retreat , a nice pleasant place to stay and I was intending to hire bycicles to encourage canal trips to Loch Lomond , munro hillwalking trips etc My target market was going to be the independent traveller, activity holiday type of person. Given that average occupancy rates in B & B’s etc in Glasgow is 20% in the winter and 70% in the height of summer, I would expect that the occupancy levels would be well below 24 people, most of the year. Given also the type of person I am interested in, ie the independent backpacker from abroad, my experience is that backpackers do not have cars. I hope this clarifies a few points.
@Alison
Alison, thank you for posting and clarifying some issues. There was a lot of helpful information in the planning application about the plans for the hostel and the aim to encourage bicycle use. I would, however, reiterate the points made in the Society’s objection to the application, namely that it goes against the design and conservation area plans, that it will have an impact on parking spaces and traffic (it’s laudable to encourage the use of public transport but there is no guarantee your guests will use it) and the impact on noise for residents and additional waste generated.
I am sure you have no desire to set up a halfway house, however the change of use consent you are applying for would enable it to be used as such by yourself or a subsequent owner with no further applications. This is precisely what happened with the Queens Park Hotel less than half a mile away. Now run as a popular backpackers’ hostel, it was for a time used by Glasgow City Council and other Councils to house people with high social needs and, in the case of those from other councils, in an environment where they had difficulty accessing the social support they were entitled to. This was a shameful way to treat people in need of help and had disastrous consequences for those individuals and their neighbours. Things have improved dramatically since the building stopped being used for this purpose and it is a very different site to 23 Marywood – taking up almost an entire corner block.
I appreciate you are unlikely to operate at full capacity year round but even at 50% occupancy, that is 12 extra people potentially bringing 12 extra cars, generating extra rubbish, coming and going at 12 different times of day and 12 people needing to exit the building safely in an emergency. This is what is concerning most of the residents I have spoken to.
Thanks for your reply Laura. I understand what you are saying . However, the hostel was to be over two levels which in Marywood Square is equal to two flats. Two flats could have a few people staying in them anyway. I was intending to occupy the top flat and being the sole occupant, this would bring down the numbers in the building. The current use of offices I would assume would generate more traffic and vehicles during the day. I am willing to specify that there is no parking for tenants. Indeed, as specified before, 99% of backpackers dont have cars so this wouldnt be an issue in the street. The issue with people having to exit the building in an emergency…there are three exits at present. More than is required by building control. Two exits at the front and one at the back.
I would like to add that I have just found out from the owner that at present there is permission for 12 office workers to occupy the ground and basement flat. This does not include the first floor flat that I would be staying in. If this two bedroomed flat was rented out as well there is potential for well over 12 people to be occupying the building. I really dont think there would be an extra issue with waste. Coming from an office environment, 12 office workers can generate alot of waste anyway. The key to any issues such as waste is all down to good management and proper procedures in place. Indeed there is a large garage which could be used for storing the bins. I would like my hostel to look nice and homeless and environmentally ethical. The last thing I would want is lots of bins sitting outside.
I meant to say I would like my hostel to look nice and homely …. A typo error obviously!!
I have looked into the situation further as concerns a homeless unit/halfway house potential for this building in the future. Basically unrelated people staying together in a building which is their fixed address requires a multiple occupancy licence. This is different from a B & B/guesthouse/travel hostel situation as stated previously. It is not a given, therefore, that once planning permission is received for a backpackers lodge that people can stay there permanently together. Indeed this is a criminal offence without neighbours agreeing to the multiple ocucpancy licence. Perhaps I should refer to my proposal as a backpacker lodge to avoid confusion, It is my intention to scale down to a B & B in the future. This would not require any new permissions .
My dream was not to start an evening times or any other type of campaign, but rather to lead a quiet life doing what I love: meeting travellers and swapping stories and showing them Scotland. I have no desire to stay with drug addicts or other homeless people anymore than you do. This is my final comment on the matter.
good luck to Alison in her new venture. Backpackers will bring much needed revenue to local resturants, bars and shops and they will add a multicultural Eurpoean flavour to the street.
well done!!!
Thanks for clarifying your intentions, Alison. I wish you all the best and hope that anyone reading this blog and considering filing an objection takes some time out to reflect on the actual proposals rather than blatently copying the (rather unconstructive) viewpoints voiced by many selfish residents recently. I had always entertained the belief the strathbungo society represented an inclusive, friendly community rather than an exclusive, snobby elite
@Alison
You have simply picked a property that is unsuitable for your needs.
The streets in this residential area are narrow and congested, the houses have dreadful sound insulation, the mid-terrace position means disturbing at least two lots of neighbours and lack of access for things like rubbish collection. The idea of loading one small flat with 20-odd people is just not sensible or safe.
There will be (no matter how nice and quiet you personally are) noise and disturbance from so many people – who are likely to be young, far away from home and keen on enjoying themselves. They are not going to be tucked up in bed with the lights out by 11pm.
Have you met a 20 year old ? My guess is if I was 20 and in a city like Glasgow for the first time I might be tempted to go out and have a few drinks, a late meal, take in a club and then a taxi back at 4am.
My other objection is the fact that your alterations to a listed building in a conservation area will destroy the character of the property by dividing up rooms and putting a bathroom in the drawingroom. Again, you have chosen a building that is unsuitable for your purpose and are having to shoehorn in what need.
Strathbungo is a place where people want to live in a community that is residential and peaceful despite it’s city location and where we have worked hard to renovate and restore the properties. Twenty-odd years ago there were plenty of bedsits and B&Bs here and it has taken a long time to gain back what we have.
I would like to wish you well in your new venture but sadly not in Marywood Square.
The intentions behind this application are questionable & inconsistent.
The requirement is non existent.
The residential character of Marywood Square will be eroded.
The canal isn’t on the South side of Glasgow & doesn’t go to Loch Lomond.
‘Alison’ is NOT the applicant – the owner is. Planning permission runs with the land so personal promises or ideals are irrelevant and should be ignored.
In the spirit of not wanting to go to the Evening Times or avoid protest as is suggested why was there no community engagement before the application was lodged?
Hi Fiona, thanks for your reply. Yes indeed I have met a few 20 year olds. I rent rooms in the city and have done for years. I have always found that foreign young people are the best tenants. They dont tend to drink as much as local people and they are very respectful. This will be no means a ‘party’ hostel. It will be open to older people and families too.
As far as the alterations to the building are concerned, the building is currently like a shell and is in need of upgrading. The dance studio knocked down a wall in the basement and it would be reinstated. There is no bathroom on the ground floor at present and this would be upgraded too. It is going to look far better than it does now. I can assure you of that. Including the gardens, which at present have been neglected due to no one taking an interest. I think I would rather live next door to a property whih has nice flowers in the garden and has been stone cleaned than a dowdy office where no one cares what the exterior looks like. I am very keen on gardening and flowers too. It is one of my hobbies. Also the building control would deal with the insulation and fire regulations. With a full fire alarm system in place, fire doors etc the place would probably be more safe than another similar builidng with three families living in it. There is plenty access for rubbish collection at the back and as for disturbing neighbours…this is not allowed in this day and age. There is a noise control department, which I have personally had to use recently. They are a great way to curb noisey neighbours. There is a law now that makes it an offence to do so and notices are served accordingly. Lastly , it is not one flat but two flats that the application concerns. The building control have plenty rules and regulations for occupancy rates etc
@Gerry
I thought the owner had spoken to some immediate surrounding residents before the application was lodged and that they thought it was a great idea for the building!?! . The lease would be for 12 years tying in the whole building with myself living upstairs. I have often cycled to Balloch from the Southside!! You cycle over the new pedestrian bridge to the Science Centre and follow the river which leads to the canal path at Clydebank and use the cycle path along the side of the canal which goes all the way to Balloch. I have done it a few time! Its a lovely route.
http://www.cycle-route.com/routes/NCN_7_Glasgow_to_Balloch-Cycle-Route-102.html
Here is the link to the cycle route above. I do know what I am talking about and I am very consistent in my intentions!
@ Alison
You are having a laugh! There has been no community engagement what so ever, otherwise we would have all known about this, including the Bungo Society, before we were officially notified by the planning authority. Even now you and the owner are both still failing to engage!
Your story changes from it being a hostel to a B and B! Even now how can you be trusted?
You are now using this blog (and suspect getting others to help by pretending to be residents) for your own PR. You can dress it up with ideals of flowers, homemade shortbread or bike rides and make as many promises as you want but they are all personal and unenforceable without a legal agreement over the property! At the end of the day you or whoever else are in it for commercial profit.
It is also niave and irresponsible to think that the Council will regulate noise control etc – there are budget cuts to councils incase you haven’t noticed!
If you lived on the street or had engaged with us in the first instance you would have understood where we are all coming from in terms of parking, traffic problems, waste etc!
This is not the case of NIMBYISM but wrong development in the wrong location as City Plan 2 confirms – which our objection will be based on!
@ Alison
In that case, it sounds like your initiative would be better based around the Clydebank area. That way you or your backpackers would benefit from cycle path access to Loch Lomond, a canal towpath route into the heart of Glasgow or all the way to Edinburgh, and excellent transport links to the city centre.
@ Alison
Speaking as one of the immediate surrounding residents, neither myself, or any of the immediate neighbours that I know of, were spoken to by the owner regarding his plans.
He has been quite a regular presence recently, with plenty of opportunity to do so, but sadly I’m unaware of anyone who he had discussed his plans with prior to the application being lodged.
I would welcome any immediate surrounding resident who did speak to him, and who thought the plan was a “great idea”, to post here and disprove me, as I’m not above admitting I may be wrong…
@Alison
You posted on Oct 16th: “On taking early retirement at 50, from the accountancy profession, I decided that I would like to fulfil my dream of setting up a backpacker travel hostel in Glasgow.”
You posted on Oct 17th “I rent rooms in the city and have done for years. I have always found that foreign young people are the best tenants.”
Haven’t you already fulfilled that ambition elsewhere then?
The argument about a residential area and traffic problems will make no difference as this is a commercial building anyway. There was talk of it being a dentist before I stepped in. Can you imagine the traffic problems with say 3 dentists accepting clients every quarter of an hour: it could just as well end up a doctors surgery, a lawyers or an accountants. With permission for 12 office staff and all the clients coming and going during the day, im sure some tourists who spend the majority of their time out exploring the city is a better option. Also, an unoccupied building at night and no one taking an interest in the general character of the building, is doing nothing for the street anyway. The character of the inside has been lost too with sockets and computer leads everywhere. Im intending to restore it to its original character on the ground floor and reinstate the dividing wall in the basement. There could be many commercial uses for this building . That is worth considering when arguing about traffic problems. As said, i would not allow anyone to park at the front of the building. That is only respect for the neighbours given the limited parking for residents. The fact that I do not drive also helps.
The comments above are incorrect.
Uses such as doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants etc fall within Class 2 of the Town and Country Planning Use Classes Order 1997. Therefore, like a hostel they would require a change of use being granted from an office (Class 4). For the reasons stated above it’s highly unlikely that such uses would be granted consent. Yes there are a couple of dentists in Strathbungo however these are on the periphery of the residential settlement and are not in mid terraced houses like the subjects.
I also suspect “The argument about a residential area and traffic problems will make” a huge difference as they are material considerations.
Thanks for putting me right Iain. I knew that there was a proposal for a dentist before I viewed the property. Anyway, this application must be viewed in comparison to an office with 12 people working in it and clients coming and going with the possibility of them all having cars. It cannot be compared to a residential property. I have lived just over the railway line form Strathbungo for 25 years, often admiring the tranquility of these streets and in no way would put that in jeopardy. To obtain a good rating from the tourist board the property has to be first class on the outside. It certainly is not like that right now. I wouldnt be spending a chunk of my retirement money to create noise and disturbance. Far from it. As said before, there are rules which govern noise, refuge, traffic etc and I would obviously respect them or risk losing my investment. This building is in need of a facelift and I doubt if any company using it as offices would care about the exterior of the building nor the interior for that matter leaving computer equipment on, creating fire hazards and no one there in the evening . The issues need to be addressed in comparison to the commercial possibilities that exist.
Hi everyone. Just reading through all these comments and would only make two- I don’t think this is nimbyism at all to object to this. The objections have to be based on good grounds in order to succeed and the whole point about Strathbungo being a conservation area is to maintain its character as a residential area. This is something which has been allowed to erode in the history of the area and the work of the Strathbungo Society and others has been instrumental in getting to this stage. There is no point in having conservation status if we allow it to be diluted by the ‘dreams and aspirations ‘ of one indivudal to fulfil her retirement plans. In order to do this the applicant must find a suitable property in a suitable area; all objectors are saying is this ain’t it.
hAnd i Quote
AM
The ‘backpackers’ description is not a material planning consideration and if granted the operators would not be bound by that description.
If this application is granted there would be no limitation on who the operators accept as clients.
Try again
Hi Ruth, i just can’t agree with you although some of the comments on here are balanced. I feel that a lot of residents are hiding their glaring nimbyism behind the cloak of protecting the conservation area, not all but some. here are some giveaways!
1. The ‘backpackers’ description is not a material planning consideration and if granted the operators would not be bound by that description.
If this application is granted there would be no limitation on who the operators accept as clients.
2. IT’S IMPERATIVE THAT EVERYONE LODGES OBJECTIONS TO THIS FRIGHTENING PROPOSAL HOWEVER IN DOING SO THEY MUST MAKE THEIR COMMENTS BASED ON VALID PLANNING GROUNDS (As per pro forma objection letter link above) – saying you don’t want this use next to your house will simply be deemed as NIMBYism (not in my black yard) and hold no sway with the planners.
3. Sophie Dobson whole post on 15th Oct
4. The distribution of the leaflet ,ACT NOW TO PROTECT YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD!!!
go on own up!!!
5.Strathbungo is a place where people want to live in a community that is residential and peaceful despite it’s city location and where we have worked hard to renovate and restore the properties. Twenty-odd years ago there were plenty of bedsits and B&Bs here and it has taken a long time to gain back what we have.
PS i am delighted that members of this blog agree with me that two lines of cars parking down the street is dangerous and so hope will share my delight that parking restrictions will be imposed sometime in the new year. Again this will not affect the hostel as backpackers don’t drive cars.
@Domski
It’s a bit rich urging people to “go on own up!!!”, when you yourself don’t seem very keen to impart your full name as you sling mud at people who have every right to express their concern.
Everyone has a right to express their feelings… Both and against the proposed plans, without people like you weighing in with your NIMBY insults.
Please do put across your feelings on the matter… They are greatly appreciated for a balanced argument, but please do so like an adult.
hi Andrew
everyone has a right to express their opinions and i have every right to point out that some of them are based on assumptions and discriminatory attitudes based on Nimbism. I don’t need to “hide behind a nickname” or a conservation area. I would be grateful if you could let us know who posted the toadish leaflet through my door as I would like to have an adult converation with them.
Domski
You quoted me in point 2 of your earlier post. My comments are factual so I fail to see how they can be viewed as Nimbyism??
You obviously have very strong views on the matter which you like everyone else are entitled to. You accuse many of Nimbyism. I’d be interested to know what YOUR keen interest in the proposal is, are you or a relative/friend involved in the application??
“i am delighted that members of this blog agree with me that two lines of cars parking down the street is dangerous and so hope will share my delight that parking restrictions will be imposed sometime in the new year.”
You can’t be serious? Restricting parking to one side of the street?
@Marywood Resident
Actually’ Marywood resident’ I am not having a laugh. I came on this site to defend myself. Not to do some PR. I was pretty upset about accusations of drug addicts etc occupying the premises. The shortbread quote is not made up either. Recently when my father died I asked my mother to show me how to make shortbread because I think something like that would go down a treat in a backpackers hostel. Im sorry if you are that pessimistic about everthing and everyones intentions. I also stated that in the future , I would scale down to a B & B just like my mother did. Thats in the future…not right now. Yes I have other flats that I rent out already and yes I was an accountant. I dont see what problem that creates. I was advised by the architect and owner how to go about this application. I thought the planning stage is when residents became aware and had a chance to put in their say. I was informed, however, that some residents had been spoken too. To be honest I find this site very upsetting and wont be posting on it again .
`
Oh and Andy, a backpacker lodge is a completely different ball game than rent out a flat! So no I have not fulfilled my ambition yet of running a backpacker hostel!!?!
A true conservation area would ban all cars due to the environmental damage however on one side of the street is a reasonable compromise as long as selfish people don’t start using traffic cones.
And where is everyone supposed to park then? Pollokshaws road which is insecure enough already and has limited parking or over on the other side of the railway tracks which is even more insecure? You make it sound like this is Beverly hills in LA or Tudor heights in New York, its not. It’s a few streets in the southside in an area that nobody has ever heard of between a park that people have been murdered in and a railway line. Honestly get a grip and start living in the real world. If people want to park outside their house in a residential street then they should be allowed to and not controlled by the type of people that ride bikes with cameras on their helmets and take great joy in telling people they don’t own a tv.
If you want me to play the house prices card then I will. Who is gonna want to buy the house your selling when if they come to view it they have to park a mile away?
I’m not even from Glasgow but have lived here for 2 years and honestly can’t get over the utter strangeness of people that live here, its like living in a suburban nightmare.
If parking is restricted in this way then I’m out of here.
@domski surely your the owner of the property?
It’s no surprise that the residents of Strathbungo are aghast at the thought of this after the years of trouble that other ‘Hostels’ in the area have brought. If anyone has a right to be cautious or be guilty of (NIMBYISM) as its refered to here then Strathbungo residents have, erm…. from past experience?
There is no doubt AT ALL that this Hostel will increase parking problems, increase noice and erode the conservation nature of the area. It’s not wanted, relevant for the area or property (The middle of a residential street?) , so please take it elsewhere. As a ‘backpackers’ hostel, your at the wrong end of the town. If this is your target market, it wont work as a business. To make your retirement dream work, why not maximise its chance of success by locating it near back packers?
This property should be converted back to flats as it was originally intended.
Hi resident sb
Don’t let me hold you back, especially if you own more than one car, that is one/two down another fifty or so to go. if more people leave we may be able to squeeze all the cars in on one side of the street.
I hear Clydebank has the original conservation area and it is near the canal for cycling!! However i am not sure they allow cars at all. if you work in the west you could always use public transport. That would be real conservation.
I am glad you recognise that strathbungo is a few streets between a park and the railway. This is the most sensible point in the whole lot of posts. Hopefully in the new year it will also have a backpackers hostel to add some much needed balance and style and coffers into are great local shops and resturants.
All the best with your move.
You honestly have no idea do you, its like your living on another planet or something. A hostel with apparent 20% capacity in the winter would be a bad thing as the extra beds would be filled with people in social care undoubtedly. Another thing anyone has failed to mention is that rooms for this place were already being advertised on gumtree as bedsits and not as a hostel a few weeks ago although the advert has now mysteriously disappeared.
As for the parking I was never told anything about it from anybody until reading it here. It’ll cause nothing but chaos and misery for people who already have to put up with a lot round here. You’ll find a lot of people will ignore any restrictions and still park on both sides I reckon. Just because you don’t own a car doesn’t mean the rest of us should suffer.
I knew I said I wouldnt post on here again but I honestly cannot believe this fear campaign. 20% capacity in January is a great thing for me because i intend to travel abroad in january each year and shut for a month!! I have already stated that a place where people stay as their main address requires a multiple occupancy licence. Please get over this social care issue. If you dont believe me ask the council. There is also no way I could advertise beds for rent right now as I neither have keys for the place nor a lease. You obviously have not seen inside the ground and basement property…there is not even a bathroom. Anyone wishing to meet me and talk to me face to face without slandering me on this website, please feel free to leave your name and address and i will pop round and meet you as im sick of this fear campaign against my business proposal which contains a few inaccuracies to say the least.
I must say I’m loving the new comedy section of the blog.
Alison,
You idea is great. I am backpacker myself and I love traveling. But I don’t want hostel here on my street and think the campaign is right thing to do as we do live here. You may opt for setting your hostel next to your house. There is no reason ruin this magic street, this magic area where we live.
Hi Alison
The theme of your post appears to be, in summation,
I back pack all over the world but don’t back pack in my street!!!
I think you are a nimmby backpacker? you probably even take a car!!! Please don’t ever backpack again, as i will inform the country where you are going, to warn them of the danger and the fact “the nimby in you” will ruin the magic of the country, street, house you are going to!!
I find your post hilariously ironic!!!
Things seem to be getting a little heated. The Society wants to run an open forum here but it is only fair to avoid making personal attacks and judgements. For the sake of clarity:
1) Re: parking restrictions. To do this would require a Traffic Regulation Order. The Society is not aware of one being put in place and the process takes about a year in total. The last major TRO in the area related to blocking off the back lanes at Moray/Regent and Nithsdale/Pollokshaws. It was widely consulted on.
2) It is not scaremongering or NIMBYism to raise concerns about who will be staying in the hostel. There is a history here, based on the Park View and Queens Park Hotel, of vulnerable people with complex social needs being housed on a TEMPORARY basis in budget hotels/ hostels without appropriate care and assessment. This may not be the desired clientele of this establishment but it would be perfectly legal to accept them without HMO licences.
Monika for goodness sake behave yourself…..you backpack around the world but not where you live…. You backpack where other people live …but they are obviously not as important as you!!!!!
Hi Laura
I accept the first point about traffic. However my scaremongouring highlights that a lot of the heated stuff on hear is imagined, not based on facts, histeria!! The assumptions and discriminatory attitudes are from within the community. The blog, Strathbungo community claims to be inclusive, if you want me to cut and paste from it, i will do.
Did you receive the nibmy leaflet on the threat to the community. This was a piece of nonsense.
In relation to the second point, what is the second point!!! Have you not noticed that there is a care home, bedsits and rented flats already existance on the street. Are they a threat!!!
I think not! they certainly balance the nimby atmosphere that is apparent on here.
“In relation to the second point, what is the second point!!! Have you not noticed that there is a care home, bedsits and rented flats already existance on the street. Are they a threat!!!”
Certainly not. Again, the Society’s point on this particular application relates to the specific size and location of the property and the number of planned guests as well as the planning classification which experience (not imagined threats) informs us has the potential to be badly managed. To express concerns about a high number of transient residents in a primarily residential area is not NIMBYism but a perfectly legitimate practical concern. You are entitled to disagree but to imply anyone making such statements is a scaremongering snob would be much like me implying you are illiterate because you appear to have no question mark button on your keyboard.
The only leaflet I have seen is that distributed by residents based on the Society’s original article on the blog.
@domski
Domski-you always have the option of coming out from behind your anonymity and writing a letter of support to the council if you feel that strongly and that would be a much better way of participating than just insulting people here on the blog. I would reiterate that at least in my own case it is not nimbyism. I live next door to an HMO which is reaosnably well run for the most part but this is not always the case. I knew it was there when I moved but it did not influence my opinion on whether or not to live here. My objections to the application are based on preserving the Conservation Area status and the residential character of these houses. I don’t think these properties are suitable for office, backpacking, hostel, or care home use. The internal alterations necessary for these applications ruin the character of the properties as do many of the poorly done conversions/ plastic windows and doors that have been allowed in the past ~(and are still getting through unchecked). I don’t see the point of having the Conservation Area status if it is not properly regulated by the planning department, and as I said I have a right to object as you equally have a right to support.
@Alison
I think the residents would welcome the opportunity to meet with ‘alison’- why dont you organise a public meeting?
Hi Ruth
you seem very reasonable but your argument is flawed. The property in question has been an eyesaw for the last ten years so it would be improved internally and externally by it being developed. No one can say it looks good in its present condition and the last time it was occupied it was run as a business!!!!
so many years ago the council agreed to this status.
ps and it is Mr Domski
@domski
Hi Mr domski
I know that it was empty etc but the Conservation Plan states an obligation where possible to return buildings in the area to residential use, not escalate their commercial use.
Nimby night tonight?? Looking foward to it!!
I find it hard to believe that the residents of marywood square and strathbungo would challenge the proposal for a guest house. Are we all sillly as i felt this evening, there was no way any of us would believe in a life time that this could ever be a homeless hostel. this evening i felt there was a very snobbish attitude to the wole proposal. i am deeply concerned me,as my intention was to purchuse an eleven bedsit property, with the view to turning it into my famly home.
I however find that you residents ,are locked up in a guest house battle.
I myself work with the homeless ,and can guarantee ,that this would never pass the rules
Regards
Lsa
Thanks Lisa. I am down at my family home in Prestwick right now. There are loads of lovely building being used as guest houses and this attitude doesnt prevail. It is a well to do area and the guests are mingling with the locals very quietly I must say!!
@Lisa @Alison
*Collusion*
@Lisa @Alison
I’ll get on to the Scottish BAFTA’s and see if they’ll accept some late nominations…
I’m very confused. I thought this application was for a hostel not a guest house ? I don’t think people were being snobby at all, just concerned for the character of the area.
All quiet on the nimby front tonight, the meeting went well and I hear the commitee is increasingly confident that the backpackers hostel will not go ahead.
Perhaps someone superly nice will buy the property and convert into a home. I know some decent chaps who have large amounts of surplus cash who would be interested. Unfortunately they smoke loads of weed and play punk/rock. Even I would object to that as they are a tad too loud and I doubt the owners would sell. I am very interested in suggesting some alternative uses, as once this proposal is defeated we need a new ruse to out the nimbys!!!!
How high can a nimby’s heart rate reach!
My first suggestion is turning it into a bicycle shop/exchange for south side cyclists. We could give resident SB a guided tour and organise weekend rallies. Now that would be exciting.
Alternative, we could do nothing and let the property get into an even worse condition than it is today…
Very interesting to read Lisa Hardie’s comments. If I were looking to move into this area for the first time and doing my neighhourhood due diligence, I would be very put off by this threat. To be honest, I think Strathbungo’s reputation in the public eye as a nice area to live in has suffered greatly over past two weeks. I’m very disappointed the society has not only let this happen but has actively participated in the nimby campaign.
I think you will find that the Society was doing what is in its remit which is to protect the area against inappropriate developments and support the Conservation Plan. I didn’t hear a single voice of support for this application at the meeting apart from the owner himself and Lisa (who live where?) and who incidentally didn’t identify his interest at the start. So where were all of those who support it? I think if I was doing ‘due diligence’ on the neighbourhood I would be pleased that so many people were interested enough to go to the meeting, write on the blog and use their democratic right to object.
I hardly think my wee project is an inappropriate development. Everything has been exaggerated and magnified 10 fold. As said 20% occupancy in winter / 70% in July is the norm. Guest house in winter = rent out two rooms = two cars at the most. Summer mainly bag packers and hillwalkers/cyclists who mainly dont drive, get up early to better themselves and explore etc. Most clients would come from hostel bookers/hostel world.com. ie they need a bank account and a permanent address to book and pay a deposit online. If you would look at these sites you would see that people leave ratings based on cleanliness, character etc I hardly think i would go and spoil everything with filling up with homeless people in the winter thereby affecting my ratings on these to important sites. The whole campaign is just ridiculous. There are also procedures put in place to take identity from people ie passports. Most travel hostels wont accept people without them . That is a good way to control your clientel so yes it is possible to control what type of person comes into the place!!!
@domski
Hi Mr domski Were you at the meeting? Would have been nice to say hello and have a chat over conservation plans and their usefulness. Watch this space because if developments like this are allowed then the Conservation Plan and City Plan become worthless, and it won’t be long before these streets consist of broken terraces with glass multi story tower blocks interspersed amongst the remaining terraced houses. Oh and no one will want to live here because they will all be houses in multi occupation with at least 30 people occupying each one. I thought we already had residents in Strathbungo who smoked weed and played punk rock and urm why is that so objectionable anyway – is that not a form of nimbyism on your part suggesting that they are not suitable for the area?
@Alison
‘Wee Project’ ? You are hoping to put 24 people into two flats that originally have three bedrooms max, one on the ground level and two at basement level. That equates to something like a potential occupancy of 6. Your application is for four times that amount. The issue for me is not the type of person who might occupy it, or how well/badly it might be run, it is strictly to do with the way in which your proposal is contrary to the Conservation Plan for the area and the City Plan. These plans are there for a reason and if I as a semi retired Chartered Accountant was thinking of setting up a similar establishment I would make sure it was a) in an appropriate area and b) in an appropriate building. I would probably also have made some effort to communicate with the residents before even thinking of putting in a planning application that was controversial in terms of the prevailing planning rules.
Hi Ruth
You don’t appear to have a sense of humour. Have you ever been to a backpackers hostel?
It is clear to me that you are hiding behind the mask of the conservation area and your last email suggests you have lost the plot or maybe rolled a large reefer. However my assessment is that you probably wouldn’t inhale
All the best.
@domski
Too personal Mr Domski!
fair enough!!!
After reading the posts so far feel I need to take a breath before writing lol. Firstly before I make my points I would like to say I feel some peoples figures are getting a bit carried away, some of the comments I have read are a bit much/rude. I don’t think people would be talking to each other face to face quiet the same way, though a good debate is needed on this matter. I have been living in strathbungo for the past 25 years as much as I love the sound of a nice clean friendly backpackers (as someone who uses them myself) I really do not see this being the right type of property/area for a backpackers at all.
1) The Parking Argument – I really don’t see what that has to do with anything, or really anyone, being able or not being able to park directly outside your house is just a bit controlling for my liking, having to walk a bit up or down the street or even to another street to your car or home, though it may be annoying(especially in the winter months) is still far more comfortable than getting a bus or train. A road is for anyone to use from anywhere and feel we have to stop this type of debate and keep to the debate of building use.
2) Noise Level – Lets say Alison that your Backpackers is opened and attracts the type of backpackers you say you will be wanting to stay this still does little to nothing to stop the type of noise level that will be made by 20 od people. Since the smoking ban is now in place in public areas there will be a high number of people smoking out the front or back, as with most bars,club, backpackers ect. This is a good place to have a chat and get to know each other, the problem is that this type of noise on a very quiet street at say 12 am or 2 am is amplified and travels up or down the street by the echo on the buildings, Anyone who has had neighbours have a garden party or been making any loud noises will vouch for this. The idea of this type of noise in a residential area like strathbungo on most evenings (not occasional like a garden party) throughout the year and more so in the summer months when there is no cold to bare is just a horrible thought. If you have or have had young children yourself am sure you would hate the idea of having to keep putting your children to bed again and again due to the noise, and how the most placid person would be pushed to breaking point. Also keeping with noise level, people heading back from a night out. Say for example with the Shed just 10 mins walking distance away the noise of a few large groups or all of the backpackers coming back at that same time (in my experience people tend to share a room in a backpackers with a good few people they know or rent the whole room out) would cause a massive noise problem for neighbours on the quiet street not to say other streets that they may pass through. Even the quietest people can loss sense of how loud they are being with a good few drinks and company around them. As someone who lived on Minard RD beside the Shed for a few years I know this sadly all to well, also lets remember (in the summer months especially) people don’t tend to be in a rush to head home. Now this behaviour is perfectly normal and healthy and have done it myself many many times but once again it comes back to where it will be happing, the number of people doing it and that it wont be occasional noise but a potentially frequent problem of high noise level as the Shed is opened till 2 am Thursday to Sundays. This is just one idea of what could happen. I am of course not saying there would only be problems if people went to the Shed, but you get the idea.
3) After 12 years/Alison/the owner of the building – Most of us are planning to live here for many years to come. Lets say in 12 years or until Alison leaves the bushiness then what will be left will be a ready to go backpackers/cheap accommodation guest house. This is when things could go very down hill no matter what good ideas were put in place to start with. Am sure the person who first opened up the Queens Park Hotel didn’t see it becoming the type of Hotel it turned into by the end. Although this could be said for any bushiness but once again it comes down to the area and the neighbourhood feeling that is much loved by all who live here and like myself are only to aware of the decline of much of the other parts of Shawlands. The people that the Queens park hotel attracted were intimidating. Many who were recovering or none recovering junkies and alcoholics, which had nothing to do with an organisation putting them their (as was brought up in the last meeting) but my word of month knowing they would get a cheap bed for the night and not be bothered. It also was a place where vulnerably people who were trying to sort there life’s were dragged back into their old ways of living. Many of these places still exist in the city and the idea of one opening up in Strathbungo (if not for years to come) fills me with dread and sadness. My friend worked as a housekeeper for a while in the QP Hotel so I know its not just gossip.
4) The Last meeting – I was at the Strathbungo meeting last week and and have two points to make about it. Firstly, I think the way that the owner of the property did not make clear who they were and instead commented on support of the backpackers (till all was made clearer by the gentleman) was a bit of an under handed way of conducting things and didn’t do anything to ease the other people in anyway. Secondly, maybe more importantly the gentleman did actually not have to be there nor did he have to say who he was and I do think his heart was in the right place. Maybe he really does think It would be a good idea for the area to have a backpackers though living next to it is a different story.
5) To Alison – After all that has been said by myself and many others who you have message back to you would you not find it a horrible and uncomfortable place to live and work knowing that so many people in the area are totally against the idea of the backpackers at No. 23. I understand its a life dream and sound like maybe even one of the ways I would spend my retirement but not at the expense of a nice quiet street with many people who have lived here for many years and people who wish to live here for many years to come. From what I understand from what the owner was saying at the meeting he feels his hands are tied and must go ahead with the plans due to being bad business eutectic other wise. I totally understand his position, but he will not be living, working and putting (as far as I know) his cash into this you will.
To finish please may I ask for you to re think your proposal and to save the stress and efforts that the Strathbungo residents will go through to stopping No. 23 becoming a backpackers.
shhhhhhhhhhh!!! all quiet on the nimby front. Maybe you have had a collective realisation that you have totally embarrassed yourselves. 1.0 to Mr Domski!!!!
Comments like this really do nothing to strength your argument for. If anything they do the total opposite.
Hi James
I struggle a little bit with your post especially as you have used the terms junkies and alcoholics in your first post on this matter. I sense you are wearing a smoking jacket and have a nice pair of warm comfortable nimby slippers on.
I also have difficulty with the term LOL and I am sure someone of your fading years could try a little harder to be eloquent especially when discussing matters of importance.
all the best!!
Hi James, I’d just let him make a further fool of himself, the plannners no doubt can see this thread and gauge for themselves the lack of interest and respect shown for the genuine concerns of the neigbours. He seems to be enjoying taunting the neighborhood with the ‘nimby badge, change the record domski, please…………..
Hi Resident X
The defintion of a nimby is Not In My back Yard!!!
Maybe you don’t actually live in Marywood Square or the mask of the conservation area? In these terms you are not actually a Nimby but something far worse!
However I get a feeling that you do live somewhere close, I can feel a strange force, is that the X force, or the nimby force, duluding yourself into believing that you hold a majority view down these streets and not as you really are, the scared nimby minority who care about two things, their house price and their car parking space.
I can’t wait for the hostel to open and I intend to go to their first party night! Perhaps you could join us in your resident X mask and gown!!!
all the best!